The Nature of Man

by Melannie Stryder Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:35 pm

This is not a story about guild wars, this is not a fairytail or myth, this is an observation I made today. Throughout our lives we learn many many things, how to speak, how to write, how to read. We learn to interact with others, how to work, raise a family. These lessons stay with us our whole lives, but sometimes, sometimes you learn something, discover a truth, see a different reality, that haunts you and turns your life around and upside down. I witnessed today, the nature and true power of man, and came upon this revelation.
Mankind is a primitive race, no matter how evolved our methods have become. Ultimately everything mankind does, even now, is based on survival. In the beginning of time we gathered food with our own two hands, we need food to survive. We lived in clans that moved with prey, mankind also always craved contact with eachother. We see the same things today, however more complex it has become. We no longer hunt and/or catch and prepare our food, yes we cook it in our, in some cases, fancy kitchens, but that food comes from somewhere, prepared by others. Instead, we work to get food and other so called necessities that not only create more bonds with our fellow man, but also creates a race that becomes solely dependent on machines and electronics. We no longer use our own strength that we were created to have and use, we rely on others to do it for us. Yet still, it is mankind's innerself and determination to overcome everything including themselves,and causes us to always strive to do more and more, to make things "better" just as it has always been. Decades have passed and still, we crave very simple things, food, water, Companions, a place to live, and to live on. Homo Sapiens have a strength within them unmatched by any other species, if only we used this strength inside of us all. I can't personally complain about anything, as I enjoy all the comforts of modern day living, yet sometimes, I imagine just how strong we would be, if we began once more to rely on ourselves, and less on modern inventions. Some of you may think me crazy, but it is something I discovered within myself today, and within all mankind.

We ARE strong.

by Logan Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:16 am

Wow just wow. I may be completely missing the point of this but if I do then I agree. I have always believed that we as humans are able to do more than we do now. When you think about how little we know about our own brains, you realize that there is a lot of potential for us all to do things we never thought we could or would do.

by pakashi Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:45 am

philosophy at its finest, i was actually puzzled for some time Razz

by Melannie Stryder Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:52 am

Not only our brains though, as amazing and still so unknown as it is, we as a race are strong, continuously overcoming obstacle after obstacle, yet we strive towards a future that to me, seems bleak. I know this is also topic that's been spoken on man times before, whether you have heard It or not, and that's our health. I believe in a way mankind ourselves has caused many sicknesses that has plagued us. Medicine and immunizations have saved many people from getting sick and possibly dying, but we have also destroyed our immune system. It seems that as time goes on, strains of viruses mutate and become stronger, more resistant, than current vaccines, catching us unawares and often causing panic. Instead of weakening our immune systems by taking something that does the work, why don't we use our knowledge to instead find a way to strengthen our bodies and minds? Once again ive babbled, but I think a good motto would be strengthen don't weaken, say no to vaccines, unless its rabies Smile

by Spice N Dice Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:22 pm

lol. You fixed the guild name Wink

If I understood everything you said to what you meant then Logan and Pakashi probably got lost at the "we ARE strong". I'm guessing you went through certain situations or thought processes in the past that convinced you that the human race was weak, which didn't register with me at first as I never looked at it that way, I'm guessing Logan and Pakashi felt the same way.

@Mankind is a primitive race, I can see what you mean. No matter how much we advance we will always need the basic necessities that we've needed since the stone ages. I don't agree with it completely though. I don't think it's "The needs" that define being primitive. The fact is so long as we are human those needs will never change, what has changed however, is our knowledge and thinking, albeit slowly. In the past, living was about surviving, but there have been and always will be thinking ages, where mankind progresses in thought, hence the existance of thinkers and philosophers, like socrates, and you.

I also agree with you that mankind is too relient on its own creations, but I dont know if I agree that it is a weakness. We ARE strong true but our strength can only get us so far without adding on it. I just think that taking the extreme either way is wrong, living off of medicines and vaccines is no way to live, but not using the gifts that we have created with our own strength is a waste too. If we can load some of the work off to our own creations we have that much more human resources to put to use on something else.

I think human progress can be broken down into main parts. 1) Our ability to create which has gone unchecked for a very long time (not the subject) and 2) our ability to think which sadly hasn't progressed even a fraction as fast. The one thing that Dr. Phil said that I've actually taken to heart was "If it's not working try something else". My own personal opinion is that instead of looking at our ability to create as a solution to our weaknesses, we should look to our ability to think for the entire human race, not just key individuals that we think will be the best people for the job.

I actually got mixed up a couple of times while I was writing this out so I hope it makes sense. And thank you Mel this is one of few topics that got me interested in the forum again Very Happy

Keep up the critical thinking!

by Amberlyn Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:15 pm

*Yawns* ... I think ... well I donno .. Ill tell you when they make a Computer to read my mind ... cuz Im to lazy to sit here and type it LoL =)

by Force of the divine Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:58 pm

i agree with spice...its our strengh to think off new ways and build those to improve the way of living. If its only survival the strong of body would survive and now the strong of mind make it possible for more people to survive. Very Happy

by Melannie Stryder Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:02 pm

What I witnessed was not mankind being weak, it was an act of pure power and strength, the reason we are the supreme race, the alphas of the world, the top of the food chain.

I see where you are coming from spice, but I believe that we have become too dependent on modern day inventions. How many of you can honestly say you never freaked when your power went out? would freak if there was no heating system, no plumbing, no cooling, how many of you would honestly be able to be comfortable living without these things? As for our inventions and ingenuity, I'm not saying we shouldn't use them and our resources, I'm saying what we use them for should change. As for our resources, there's a point when they are over used, and that point isn't very far away. We should use these things to instead, find a way to, yes I'm going to go there, fix overpopulation, reduce world hunger, restore the earth to its prior strength and health, and turn back to some simplicities that would strengthen our race. a good example for this, thanks for pointing it out, is that the strong and healthy survive. Yes our strong minds allowed us to give the weaker beings a chance, this is not how we were meant to live. We have weakened the race by using inventions to save the weak, preventing us from adapting. Just as animals in the wild survive, so were we meant to. Just an example, say before Columbus discovered America, there was life on this continent, and they survived without our medicines, how? A tribe of Indians follows a herd of buffalo into in unexplored region, they pitch tents and prepare for the hunt. A few of them began to feel strange, perhaps they get a rash, feel warm and tired. Not knowing what this means, they continue to interact with their tribe, unknowingly spreading this sickness. The bug hits, children, men, and women find themselves unable to eat and in terrific pain, more pain than they can understand. However, a majority are seemingly unaffected by these symptoms and desperately try to save their loved ones. The weakest die first, unable to fight off the virus, but eventually it takes its course and the tribe begins to recover. They regain their strength and move on to catch the herd that had led them there. The next generation is born, their parents, survivors of the virus, pass down the antibodies to fight it off, the children are now immune. The tribe has now become stronger.
these things take time, but it has taken this long for us to get where we are today. And as for our progressive growth through the years, are we trully progressing towards a future in which humans will still live? Yes our inventions give us strength, but every single thing we do has a consequence. Are we as a whole fully prepared to face these consequences? We think of the future as pradise, flying cars, extreme inventions, world peace, living in space even, this however is not the future I see in store for us. There WILL come a time when we can build no further, when our resources have been depleted, our inventions no longer maintainable. Man will weaken, and eventually fall. what's left of our massive cities and empires will linger, the last remnants of a once powerful race, then they to will crumble and surrender once more to the earth. As the concrete weakens, roots will penetrate and trees and plants will begin to grow, the world will once again be mother natures.
We need to take the time and look ahead to what is in store for us, for our children and our children's children and all the generations after that. As of now its not to late,we can still turn it around and replenish the earth. If we take good care of it, it will take good care of us.

by Force of the divine Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:17 pm

well the viruses of the modern and the vaccination against it we pass down to so we become stronger but as always there will be a new form that we must conquer.

And i agree we must take care of our planet (not directly go all hippie and go hugg some trees) but i also believe that we will overcome the problems of recourses either by recycling or other means.

And the event of crumbeling human city i do not see happening for a long long time.....maybe by war (another of mans primal urges) but not for resources.

by Melannie Stryder Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:24 pm

Time is not a factor, it will happen, we take more and more every year but we never put anything back, the end is inevitable, there is no escaping it. Vaccines have also killed people, a vaccine is not the immune system becoming stronger, its a shortcut, letting the medicine do the work instead of letting our immune systems work and fight and in turn become stronger

by vendt Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:59 am

Not really helpful, what I'm about to say, but I'll still say it anyhow. xD

I've always kind of had a want or somewhat of an obsession to go back to the way the human race was in the beginning. Hunt with our spears and our bows, lie with the earth and just be at peace; use every part of an animal we kill - the hides for clothing and warmth, small bones for needles to sew our clothing, the larger bones to help make our homesteads. There's a way we could live like that, but not many are willing to sacrifice their happy current lifestyles to get it amd because most of us aren't willing to make that sacrifice, the earth will eventually become depleted and the human race will be made up of very few if any.

On the other hand, we have made some great things in our time on the planet. It feels almost wrong to deny our inventions, but just knowing that our race isn't going to last if we keep up our ways... well, it really does make me want to go back to the earth.

by Melannie Stryder Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:29 am

I have the same feelings, if we took care of our planet, we wouldn't need any of these inventions, we wouldn't, and still don't, need medicine. We were created to be able to heal. I would not go to such extreme lengths, but we should def downgrade a lot. Imagine the room we would have, if we tore down all the cities, just tore them up completely. Think of how many farms and houses could be built. I also want to mention as well, that our mindset and attitudes towards these ideas have also changed, with simplicity comes simple , therefore, because of all our inventions, our way of thinking has changed as well. I believe that simplicity should be regained. We should return to relying on the land for food, instead of gas, coal, and other resources. I personally plan to do as such. It I not hard to grow a garden or raise animals, in the city yes, but that's why we need more than ever to slow down and really take a look at the future we are heading to. I think small towns are the place to be, above all, they usually have this concept down more than most. I'm sure someone reading this will think, ewww why would I want to live in some little hick town way out in the boondocks? Because you can find true peace there. That's what I think the earth has to offer, a true contenting peace in our souls.

by vendt Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:23 am

^ Mel said it better than I. (:

Mel, let's become farmers in a little town someplace. Very Happy

by Melannie Stryder Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:36 am

im rite der wif ya, actually, i was gonna buy some land, build an underground B&B, will be called Mel's B&B, and have a big garden and such, ill prolly have someone else kill meat for me cuz i wouldnt have the heart to Smile

by vendt Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:40 am

Y'know, back when I was like 12 or so my parents had bought some land in Oklahoma and it was planned out that they were going to build an underground house. I LURVED that piece of property and it's still legally in the family someplace.
Even though my parents kinda split ways, I still really liked the idea and wanna do that: build an underground house in the (almost) middle of nowhere.

by recon Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:27 am

Only took 4 days for society to completely break down after Katrina. Great 'Apocalypse Week' special on History channel this week. I recommend you catch it, encapsulates your comments pretty much to a 'T'.

AND they back it all up with examples. It's great.

-recon

Melannie Stryder wrote:This is not a story about guild wars, this is not a fairytail or myth, this is an observation I made today. Throughout our lives we learn many many things, how to speak, how to write, how to read. We learn to interact with others, how to work, raise a family. These lessons stay with us our whole lives, but sometimes, sometimes you learn something, discover a truth, see a different reality, that haunts you and turns your life around and upside down. I witnessed today, the nature and true power of man, and came upon this revelation.
Mankind is a primitive race, no matter how evolved our methods have become. Ultimately everything mankind does, even now, is based on survival. In the beginning of time we gathered food with our own two hands, we need food to survive. We lived in clans that moved with prey, mankind also always craved contact with eachother. We see the same things today, however more complex it has become. We no longer hunt and/or catch and prepare our food, yes we cook it in our, in some cases, fancy kitchens, but that food comes from somewhere, prepared by others. Instead, we work to get food and other so called necessities that not only create more bonds with our fellow man, but also creates a race that becomes solely dependent on machines and electronics. We no longer use our own strength that we were created to have and use, we rely on others to do it for us. Yet still, it is mankind's innerself and determination to overcome everything including themselves,and causes us to always strive to do more and more, to make things "better" just as it has always been. Decades have passed and still, we crave very simple things, food, water, Companions, a place to live, and to live on. Homo Sapiens have a strength within them unmatched by any other species, if only we used this strength inside of us all. I can't personally complain about anything, as I enjoy all the comforts of modern day living, yet sometimes, I imagine just how strong we would be, if we began once more to rely on ourselves, and less on modern inventions. Some of you may think me crazy, but it is something I discovered within myself today, and within all mankind.

We ARE strong.

by Kiad Sauk Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:29 am

Apart from the fact that we are destroying our own world now, I don't completly agree.

When homo sapiens was created/evolved they were hunters and gatherers. This worked out fine, but no more then that. We were hunters but alot of them died troughout hunting, or being hunted by bigger animals.
Then mankind found out how to farm (livestock and crop) and to maximize that they had to stay at one place, which led to a permanent campsite (village)

The rest you all know, but lets give some inventions troughout the years, which distinct mankind from all others: Fire (hmm raw meat), Wheel, Shelter, Clothing, Mount.

I don't say that mankind is doing what's right, I'm just saying that we are strong because of our intellect, just as a shark is strong because of his speed and power.
Mankind were like panda's, those aren't known for their own protection either. Because of technology we changed from a pandabear to a grizzly

by Melannie Stryder Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:28 am

As ive said before, inventions are good yes, we shouldn't waste the one thing we have that differentiates us from all the other animals, and that's our brain, its what we use it foe that should change. A shark and bear both live to survive, nothing More, nothing less. We as humans strive for more, what we have is never enough, and that is what endangers our future. We can only do so much to the planet before it can no longer sustain life, it may not happen in your lifetime, or your children's lifetime, but it will happen.

by Kiad Sauk Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:02 am

Totally agree, yet i like my heating + computer to much to give it up. But drop me at a tropical island with a couple of friends of mine (so we can survive easily) and my gf cause else i feel like brokeback mountain Wink

Oh i'd love to be on Lost (tv-show) except for the plot twist - agressive attacks and such.

And btw, it will probably happen in my lifetime or the next, because war is inevitable if natural resources are getting scarce (global warming my ass, we got more serious problems, after that we can plant some tree's ^^)

by Melannie Stryder Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:21 am

Hahaha, ya, lets just say I'm going under ground if that happens, ill learn to make and hunt with bow and arrows, stock up on supplies and laptop batteries that are charged, then hole up till it passes over

by Litle Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:50 am

Melannie Stryder wrote:We as humans strive for more, what we have is never enough, and that is what endangers our future. We can only do so much to the planet before it can no longer sustain life, it may not happen in your lifetime, or your children's lifetime, but it will happen.

Melannie Stryder wrote:Hahaha, ya, lets just say I'm going under ground if that happens, ill learn to make and hunt with bow and arrows, stock up on supplies and laptop batteries that are charged, then hole up till it passes over

I agree with the top it will happen maybe not the next 100 years but it will happen. And when it happens even if u live at that time.. What would you use the laptop batteries for? There must be something else you could think of than laptop batteries.. Something like.. ... Nah i guess your right charged laptop batteries and your good 2 go Very Happy

by Melannie Stryder Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:26 pm

Lol no electricity underground

by recon Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:24 pm

Melannie Stryder wrote:As ive said before, inventions are good yes, we shouldn't waste the one thing we have that differentiates us from all the other animals, and that's our brain, its what we use it foe that should change. A shark and bear both live to survive, nothing More, nothing less. We as humans strive for more, what we have is never enough, and that is what endangers our future. We can only do so much to the planet before it can no longer sustain life, it may not happen in your lifetime, or your children's lifetime, but it will happen.

"We as humans strive for more, what we have is never enough, and that is what endangers our future."

I completey disagree. This is what DRIVES our future. If we didn't strive for more there would be no need to create green energy, better medicines, better farming techniques to feed the masses, better technology to further interconnect the planet.

And to think that we have the capacity to kill the planet earth is simple arrogance. We are a BLIP on the geological scale. I promise, the earth will survive humans. Think about it.

by Melannie Stryder Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:46 pm

Yes, that's exactly what I said, but is it a future anyone is prepared for? I'd also like to make clear that i never said the earth would be destroyed, I said the earth would no longer be able to support mankind. Try rereading it a few times before making accusations. as for this green energy and better medicines crap, you clearly did not understand my prior posts. You also just stated clear evidence of the damage we have done to the earth, there would be no need for green energy if we hadn't poluted the earth to this extent. If you reread my prior posts you will find my oppinion on medicine. I mentioned the "masses" as you say, but its the masses that are the problem, not the lack of food. As for the earth surviving humans, all you did was repeat what I have previously stated. If I were you I would go, reread everything, take some time and actually think about it, then come back and post an educated oppinion instead of getting defensive and throwing insults around.

by recon Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:14 pm

I never insulted you. The idea that mankind can destroy the earth is human arrogance at its finest. I'm sticking to that one.

As far as the other stuff goes, you're correct, I didn't read it in detail.

Looking back I gleamed these gems:

I imagine just how strong we would be, if we began once more to rely on ourselves, and less on modern inventions. Some of you may think me crazy, but it is something I discovered within myself today, and within all mankind.

To which you follow up:

stock up on supplies and laptop batteries that are charged, then hole up till it passes over

Also, you specifically said:

"We can only do so much to the planet before it can no longer sustain life, it may not happen in your lifetime, or your children's lifetime, but it will happen."

That means ALL LIFE, not LIFE AS WE KNOW IT. Or more accurately,

"I said the earth would no longer be able to support mankind."

Which is clearly NOT what you said.

Also this:

You also just stated clear evidence of the damage we have done to the earth, there would be no need for green energy if we hadn't poluted the earth to this extent

If we hadn't polluted the earth to this extent we wouldn't have the technology necessary to fix it and go beyond it. Think about this, everything in human development works in stages. Agriculture>>Industrial>>Service/Consumerist>>Modern>>Post-Modern>>Green(?). You can't look at it in a rear-view mirror and condemn it from today's perspective. You always have to attempt, in so much as is possible, to look at history from the perspective of that era in time. Without the pollution of the 19th and 20th centuries you wouldn't have laptops and ipods, we'd all be farmers dying by the time we're 50.

Listen, if you want to have intelligent philosophical/social discourse you need to understand that not everyone is going to agree with you.

Instead of having a kneejerk reaction you may want to consider your points and form a cogent counter-argument instead of insulting my intelligence by saying my opinion is uneducated just because its not the same as YOUR opinion.

<3

oh geez, flame on?

by vendt Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:20 pm

Um.....

*hides under a blanket*

"The flame wars are coming, the flame wars are coming!"

D:

by Force of the divine Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:27 am

i agree with recon on the

Agriculture>>Industrial>>Service/Consumerist>>Modern>>Post-Modern>>Green(?).

part.

Besides i still disagree with the whole medicine stuff because if we didnt use medicine and our bodys would naturaly become immune there will be new diseases. The body does become stronger with injecting medicine in our bodies.
Its like a broken bone...it can heal without help but it can also heal bad and u wont be able to use it properly. With modern sience u can put it right and make it heal better.

Btw i would love to go on a pure survival tour for several days/weeks but at the end i would also love to come back.

by Melannie Stryder Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:58 am

first of all i would like to point at that i stated that i imagine, second id like to point out the undergorund with lap top batteries was a jest, third of all. YOUR A BUMBLING FOOL! are you really that dense? HELLO!

recon wrote:
If we hadn't polluted the earth to this extent we wouldn't have the technology necessary to fix it and go beyond it.

WELL DUH! that right there just stated the problem! we wouldnt need to fix it if we hadnt caused it in the first place place! i cannot stress how much i want to just hit you upside the head rite now! think! we claim that we have such intelect and inteligence, use it! do you even think about what your gonna write before you start typing? yes i said sustain, but i went further to specify mankind, to stress that it was our future, this is what WE are creating, not the animals and i meant all life, not life as we know it. again i am going to say, THINK!!!!!!!!!!! I read this earlier today and reread the whole post before replying now, and ill i have to say is, THINK! dont just type the first thing that comes to mind! and an fyi, the way you posted it implied that i said that we could destroy the planet, therefore implying i was being arrogant, im far from arrogant. i dont like it when people call me arrogant. as for the future, no one can know what will happen till it happens. my point being the way we are headed now is straight to our doom. we benifit from our inventions now, but soon, not even they can save us. i dont expect everyone to agree with me, but i wont let neone tell me its wrong. i sincerely appreciate you posting replies as they have inspired me to delve even further into my mind and give my brain a good workout. but i honestly think your posts have been absolutely missing my point, and you unwittingly only give evidence and support to my arguments. i am not condemning the past, i am taking examples from the past and applying it to the future, just as any scientist would. and even now, with all our medicines and technology, some people are lucky to live to 20. in 2005, Heart Disease was the leading cause of death in the united states, just above cancer. the united states is one of the top countries when it comes to precentage of medicine use, and yet we are #37 on the list of health, how does that add up?

by Kiera Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:29 am

Gentle reminder to everyone - discussions like this are meant for sharing opinions upon any given topic, they are NOT to turn into name-calling or degrading some one else's point of view. Thoughtful topics that inspire responses and actually make us think should be appreciated and if points are misconstrued or misread, simply point out where the discrepancy(s) are to continue the conversation. Flame-fests whether intended or not, have no place here.
This is such a thought-provoking thread, let it continue in the spirit intended.
Cheers Smile

- Pocket Monk

by Melannie Stryder Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:22 am

Well supah officer, care to contribute?

by Amberlyn Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:39 am

*Looks for TV remote* Darn it ... How am I to watch TV with out the REMOTE!!! Gawd!

by Melannie Stryder Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:42 pm

your so goofy :p

by recon Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:01 pm

Really? You resort to insults?

One of the first things I said was that the arrogance comment wasn't pointed directly at you and you immediately get defensive about it, again. I'm attacking the idea, not you personally. It's important to remove personal feelings out of an academic conversation. In fact, that's kind of the whole point.

Then there's this:

recon wrote:
If we hadn't polluted the earth to this extent we wouldn't have the technology necessary to fix it and go beyond it.
WELL DUH! that right there just stated the problem! we wouldnt need to fix it if we hadnt caused it in the first place place! i cannot stress how much i want to just hit you upside the head rite now! think! we claim that we have such intelect and inteligence, use it! do you even think about what your gonna write before you start typing?

You claimed earlier that I didn't read through what you wrote. Now it's you who isn't reading. The point of mentioning the pollution/technology corollary is to note that if we didn't spend a century or so polluting the earth we wouldn't have all of the POSITIVE things we have today by way of technology, medicine, communications, farming methods, etc. One of the other byproducts happens to be the ability to FIX THE PROBLEM. So, follow the bouncing ball here, all of the bad things were necessary in order to pave the way ahead.

The nature of discovery/creation/invention is a destructive act, something has to suffer in order for progress to succeed. Here's a microcosm for you: When the railroads were being built across the country there were instances when a small town had to essentially be destroyed so the rail could be built through it. Ok, it's bad that 100 people had to suffer and lose their homes but the overall good that rail facilitated outweighs those people's loss. This same example applies to the global damage caused by pollution.

In other words, you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. There is no ideal world where medicines and cars and airplanes magically happen without any side effects, be they positive or negative.

As far as this health ranking goes:

Heart Disease was the leading cause of death in the united states, just above cancer. the united states is one of the top countries when it comes to precentage of medicine use, and yet we are #37 on the list of health, how does that add up?

First of all, these rankings generally calculate the health system 'as a whole'. This factors in the bloated costs of medical care in the United States. We also have an epidemic of obesity in this country caused by a large amount of disposable income coupled with an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. But I believe with Obama's health care reform bill and a larger 'eat healthier' movement gaining momentum you'll start to see our ranking move up. I mean, healthy options at McDonald's were unheard of even 6-7 years ago and now its standard issue. Even Taco Bell is claiming healthy options these days!

And finally:

you unwittingly only give evidence and support to my arguments. i am not condemning the past, i am taking examples from the past and applying it to the future, just as any scientist would.

What evidence? What arguments? All you answered with were insults. Show me some proof.

And remember...
Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong.
-Jacques Rousseau (1712 - 1778)

by Force of the divine Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:32 pm

recon she means she doesnt want the technology or at least mankind should not have to use it if i understand correctly. So the whole polution before progress isnt a usefull argument why we should not use the technology and medicines.

I do agree with you however because i like technology. But thats whats getting mixed up now.

by Amberlyn Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:24 pm

Kiera wrote:Gentle reminder to everyone - discussions like this are meant for sharing opinions upon any given topic, they are NOT to turn into name-calling or degrading some one else's point of view. Thoughtful topics that inspire responses and actually make us think should be appreciated and if points are misconstrued or misread, simply point out where the discrepancy(s) are to continue the conversation. Flame-fests whether intended or not, have no place here.
This is such a thought-provoking thread, let it continue in the spirit intended.
Cheers
- Pocket Monk

yall re-read this again.

by recon Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:10 pm

My reply followed those guidelines. There were no insults. It was a point by point response.

by vendt Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:37 am

All I have to say on the topic...

Is that...

Sometimes I think that we as a people would be better off without some of the technology we have, but at the same time, it's gotten us quite far.
I love camping because it gives me a chance to get back to nature. What I like even more is when I'm able to go away for a couple weeks and camp and live purely off the earth. That happens extremely rarely (in fact, only two times in my entire life, and I'm 22, y'all!) but it's still a good thing to be able to realize where we came from. We weren't always enveloped in all that we have now-a-days. Yes, it's nice, and yes, it's paving the way for us, but at the same time, we've had a lot of pollution and the tearing down of trees. Some people in the big cities even think that they can just pay money to get rid of their carbon footprint! Now, I don't believe in that.
I've always had a dream to live in a cabin on top of a giant mountain where I can hunt with a bow and arrow, have a little garden, and sit by my fireplace in the winter and just be in pure bliss. Whether or not that'll actually happen? Who knows. One can only hope, I guess.

Note: My views aren't necessarily the same as everyone else and I get that. Please don't think that something I don't agree with is against you. Thanks.

by Silvus Silverfox Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:35 am

This seems to be an age-old post i randomly found *blows dust off* interesting thread.....
interesting ideas.....
i'll post once i clearly read and reread this post
(really old post/half the ppl still here?)

by Kiera Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:08 am

Thanks for your interest in this topic Silvus, most who posted are still within the Alliance Smile

by donnilee Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:53 pm

Hey all. I'm a bit late to this party, but you all put forth some interesting thoughts. I have a few as well.

I think what's lacking now-a-days is "balance". We are a sentient species, therefore we will continue to explore, invent and try to solve the mysteries of disease and the brain, etc. I think the problem is that when we do find something that makes our lives more efficient, easier, etc., we "run off the end of the earth with it".

Cell phones are a perfect example. I know a lot of you yougin's don't remember, but they really are a fairly recent invention. I grew up = lived my whole life without a cell phone. I had one briefly a few years back and found it cumbersome, left it everywhere, and found it annoying when I forgot to turn it off in places that don't allow them.

My mother and sister decided I "had" to have a cell phone for emergencies, so they bought me a Go Phone, which I promptly never had any money to put minutes on. lol

I still don't use it. Many of my friends are baffled by this. They are "shocked" when I tell them I don't have a cell phone, and leave "perturbed" messages on my answering machine, like they are annoyed I'm not waiting by the phone for their call. We are so used to "instant gratification", that the idea that I might take a few hours before I return their call is incomprehensible to them. They don't get it.

Personally, I like it. Leave a message, and I'll call you back. I don't want to be available 24/7. I didn't want people calling me when I was work. I watched people calling their kids 3 times a day every time they had a break at work. It was ridiculous. What? They couldn't go 8 hours without contact? When I was a kid, if I called my mother at work -- either someone better be on the way to the hospital or the house better be burning down! Otherwise, she'd say, "Don't bother me with this crap at work." CLICK

Likewise, with fossil fuels, we overuse them and don't develop clean renewable energy because someone's making big bucks on oil. We don't pull our kids away from the computer, and they watch 8 hours of TV a day. Therefore, they become immune to the nuances of human interaction. No offense, but so many young people are just plain RUDE for no reason. We can say anything on a computer because honestly, there aren't a lot of consequences. Here's a thought: If you wouldn't say it to the person's face, if they were standing in front of you -- don't type it on the screen.

Dennis Miller said it best during a rant on civility when he said, "Our motto has gone from E Plurabus Unum, to -- What the f*** are you looking at?"

People are so self-centered, that they don't consider the global consequences of their actions anymore, and that's the problem. Technology and advancements aren't the problem -- how we USE them is the problem.

We have the resources to end hunger, but we overfarmed the land and stopped rotating crops so now the top soil is depleted. We developed nuclear energy, and instead of powering the world, we made bombs out of it. We have the cure for many diseases, but the doctors just treat the symptoms with piles of pills because someone is making money on the pharmeceuticals. So people don't get cured, they "manage" their illnesses. We are the richest country in the world (USA is) but the only one without national health care because someone is making a lot of money on insurance and medicine. We put carbon emission laws in place instead of using renewable, clean energy that would make those laws obsolete.

And so on, and so forth. We just run around putting out fires caused by our own short-sightedness, rather than making substantive changes that would be for the betterment of mankind and fix the problem once and for all. I can only hope that we as a people come to our senses before there are no more resources to work with, healthy people to do the work and an earth to live on.

by Silvus Silverfox Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:39 pm

Man sums it up rite there. This generation will survive but god knows what our prosterity will face

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