sundering vs. vamp

Sundering
I know this isnt a build. And its not even mine. But i know Zex, in the past has run a lot of tests about different mods... or something (too much math to remember). I found this on another forum. And it reveals sundering mods for what they are. Easy way to get money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiiane
As it was brought up in another thread, I decided to go out and get the actual numbers for the current operation of the 20% Sundering mod. The following results were obtained in the Isle of the Nameless, using Wild Blow (for its constant damage) with 15^50 customized weapons (the standard for a PvP character). I did not include bow damage in these tests.

Key:
• Att = Attribute level for corresponding weapon
• AL = Armor level of target
• Str = Strength Attribute
• Reg = Damage from regular hit (sundering did not trigger)
• Sund = Damage from sundering hit (sundering did trigger)
• Diff = straight damage difference between single sundering hit and regular
• Pcnt = percent damage difference between single sundering and regular
• Avg = average damage difference between sundering weapon and regular over time (Diff * .20) - this is what should be compared to things such as a Vampiric mod (3 for vamp sword/axe, 5 for vamp hammer).

Code:
Sword
----------------------------------------------------------------
Att AL Str Reg Sund Diff Pcnt Avg
----------------------------------------------------------------
12 60 0 43 53 10 0.233 2
12 80 0 30 40 10 0.333 2
12 100 0 21 30 9 0.429 1.8
12 60 10 48 59 11 0.229 2.2
12 80 10 35 46 11 0.314 2.2
12 100 10 26 36 10 0.385 2
16 60 0 49 61 12 0.245 2.4
16 80 0 35 46 11 0.314 2.2
16 100 0 25 35 10 0.400 2
16 60 10 55 67 12 0.218 2.4
16 80 10 40 53 13 0.325 2.6
16 100 10 29 41 12 0.414 2.4

Axe
----------------------------------------------------------------
Att AL Str Reg Sund Diff Pcnt Avg
----------------------------------------------------------------
12 60 0 55 67 12 0.218 2.4
12 80 0 39 51 12 0.308 2.4
12 100 0 27 39 12 0.444 2.4
12 60 10 61 75 14 0.230 2.8
12 80 10 44 59 15 0.341 3
12 100 10 32 46 14 0.438 2.8
16 60 0 63 77 14 0.222 2.8
16 80 0 44 59 15 0.341 3
16 100 0 31 44 13 0.419 2.6
16 60 10 70 86 16 0.229 3.2
16 80 10 51 67 16 0.314 3.2
16 100 10 37 53 16 0.432 3.2

Hammer
----------------------------------------------------------------
Att AL Str Reg Sund Diff Pcnt Avg
----------------------------------------------------------------
12 60 0 68 84 16 0.235 3.2
12 80 0 48 64 16 0.333 3.2
12 100 0 34 48 14 0.412 2.8
12 60 10 76 93 17 0.224 3.4
12 80 10 55 73 18 0.327 3.6
12 100 10 41 57 16 0.390 3.2
16 60 0 78 96 18 0.231 3.6
16 80 0 55 73 18 0.327 3.6
16 100 0 39 55 16 0.410 3.2
16 60 10 87 107 20 0.230 4
16 80 10 64 84 20 0.313 4
16 100 10 47 66 19 0.404 3.8

So, what can we bring out of this?

When using attack skills:
• For a sword, a vampiric mod will be better for damage over time, period.
• For a hammer, a vampiric mod will be better for damage over time, period.
• For an axe, sundering or vampiric may each be better for damage over time, depending on attribute settings.

When not using attack skills:
• For a sword, vampiric will be better for damage over time, period.
• For a hammer, vampiric will be better for damage over time, period.
• For axe, vampiric will be better for damage over time, period.
(Since strength does not trigger for auto-attacks, the figures for 0 strength will be used when not using attack skills.)

Given the above, it appears that Vampiric is still essentially superior to Sundering, since one will generally not be using attack skills for the majority of one's attacks.

Basically it sums up to : Vamp mods add more damage then sundering mods anyway. So save yourself the money.

EDIT by Zex: Keep in mind people, that all is relative. Sure, if you attack constantly, this will apply. But results may vary, depending on how often you attack. Statistics can easily play fool on us, since the circumstances presented above are unlikely in both PvP and PvE, where noone is expected to attack constantly, either due to using Healing Signet in PvE, or running around, following your target in PvP. One might choose to bring 2 weapons to switch between in PvP though.
So use this for your own conclusion, and do not mindlessly follow this one.

So, what does that mean for bows? Are those stats out there as well?

This is my conjecture on those two mods .... I myself see the vampiric mod better, and this is why:

Vampiric (max) "steals" 5 health with "every" attack that "hits". So you are assured that with every hit you make, you steal 5 health from the particular foe. That means it cannot be absorbed because it is "stealing", not "damage". I don't know anyway to absorb, reject, or redirect the stolen health myself.

Sundering (max) i believe "deals" 20% more "damage" at a ... "20%" chance i believe ... so theoratically, it deals extra damage once every 5 hits. But experimentally, it can vary. This extra damage can be absorbed, rejected, or redirected.

So ... lets use a bow. (not counting reduction from armor, nor any addition from mastery of the bow)

15-28 damage w/ vampiric: 25 stolen health + around 75-140 normal damage over 5 attacks theoratically
15-28 damage w/ sundering: 3-6 damage + 75-140 normal damage over 5 attacks theoratically

The side effects for vampiric is being unable to attack target, thus giving you
-1 degeneration. other than that, myself, i see the vamp being better, foe's health - wise.

if there was a way to get rid of the -1 degen id use it. i see your point and i agree but the degen alone is enough to stop me from using it

Isabellla, i dont know the stats for the bow, but you can try to make a chart possibly by:

creating an A/R, getting 3 bows (regular, 20% sund., 5 vamp).
Then go to isle of the nameless, close to the temple of balthazar, and find the 4 targets closest to you. the outer 2 have 60 armor, the inner left has 80, and the inner right has 100, from view of first visual sight. Have at least 3 points in Critical Strikes (so when you get a crit, you will see energy gain, knowing that it was a crit). Since crits should be the same against the same foe all the time, record the regular strikes (record for each attribute with Marksmanship as you need). Then use the sundering bow, record their sundering hits (should be larger than normal crits).

after you get all the data you need, it should be easy making the chart.

having along the row: Marks / foes armor / regular / sundering / difference / other factor

and have along the columns the tests and their data.

thats alot of work, but it could be pulled off, and will be well-worth the trouble hope that helps

EDIT: thats ALOT of work, especially if you are gonna test for each type of bow there is (short / long / horn / recurve) wheeeew, thats ALOT of work indeed